Sin is relative though and depends on one's own religious definition. What may be forbidden in one group may not be for another and so on. For example, for catholics there's nothing wrong worshipping graven images, for some groups however it violates the law of the christian god stated in the Bible ... moving on further other christian groups can celebrate holidays like christmas and easter while for others like the INC, JW and Church of God groups it is strictly prohibited ... based on their own biblical understanding, historical researches, etc., of course (I should know, being a part of their club once) and on it goes ... and that's just a fragment of the whole truth. So far we haven't delved deeper with religions OUTSIDE of christianity, who in turn, have beliefs traditions customs, dogmas, not 2 mention SAVIOURS 16 of them all to be precise ... http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/links/16-saviours-2.htm FAR DIFFERENT from christianity so we gotta take in consideration of that one too (to be continued ...) And btway, please don't ignore my very crucial and relevant question my dearest ako: Quote: "WHICH God" and how can you be sure your belief in a god/gods is NOT Bias? ____________________________ All truout history every other religion looks like a demon to every other religion and that's why there came to be WARS between both sides, slaughtering one another doing the devil's dirty work. "Thank god" the atheists are safe from religious genocides. Hallelujah ---Rai

Hello Rai, The Christian God, that is, Almighty, the Holy One, pure, without blemish. The Body whom Christ is the Head, control, power, etc. Just as I thought. That's a biased response/view, my friend. If you were born a Muslim you would say something to me like ... The Islamic God, that is, Almighty, the Holy One, pure, without blemish. The first of the FIVE Pillars of Islam states: 1) FAITH There is no god worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is His messenger. This declaration of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which all the faithful pronounce. In Arabic, the first part is la ilaha illa Llah - 'there is no god except God'; ilaha (god) can refer to anything which we may be tempted to put in place of God - wealth, power, and the like. Then comes illa Llah: 'except God', the source of all Creation. The second part of the Shahada is Muhammadun rasulu'Llah: 'Muhammad is the messenger of God.' A message of guidance has come through a man like ourselves. taken from: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/pillars.shtml Have you seen this my friend? both of you apparently have some things in common---both of you believe that a Supreme Being you call God exists; the ONLY problem there is that you are NOT UNITED (as far as reality is concerned) with that belief ... So how do you know? The Body whom Christ is the Head, control, power, etc. Yes, yes I know but the thread below shows http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/links/16-saviours-2.htm that OTHER religions has their own "set" of saviors too. What's more, it wasn't only christ that was crucified. Other religions claim and teach that there were also other "messiahs" too, who, just like christ came to earth, preached, were crucified and (get this) ROSE back to LIFE! Want 2 know em all? Here you go then: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/chap16.html After we have sinned, and have known what is good from evil. after we got separated from God, we are on our own. the weight of responsiblities now falls on our shoulder, but can we really carry it? how can our souls rest with all these? Just like I told you, other religions say the SAME thing too. Look here please and tell me what you've learned next time. http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/PaganChrists.html My friendly advice is that--- Be broadminded enough to explore the WHOLE world and not just your own world. Do not treat yourself OR your religion more SUPERIOR than all the rest, put yourself in the place of others, be tolerant, do NOT judge harshly, but treat others as you would have yourself treated. Love, as you would have yourself to be loved. This is the Golden Rule embracing all religions and it exists even before the dawn of christianity. Please read Below The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions Christianity All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1 Confucianism Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2 Buddhism Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. Udana-Varga 5,1 Hinduism This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. Mahabharata 5,1517 Islam No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. Sunnah Judaism What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary. Talmud, Shabbat 3id Taoism Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss. Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien (Beautiful, isn't it?) Zoroastrianism That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself. Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5 Adapted from "The Christopher Newsletter" taken from http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html Follow that and you will learn to live in peace both with yourself and with others. Ces't La Vie! Rai PS. Have you bothered to open the threads I gave you? I sure hope. Open your Mind as well as your Heart. May the Light of Universal Knowledge enlighten you We Love U Rai

Well said Rai. However, ako does not sound interested in looking outside his own very tiny room. This is not uncommon, in fact, I believe most people are not capable of seeing beyond their own specific belief system. It is unfortunate but true. To be honest, the quoting of an ancient text(s) back and forth really does very little to prove a point. As religious figures throughout history have proven beyond any doubt, the *enter religious text here* can be read to mean any number of things.

Well said Rai. However, ako does not sound interested in looking outside his own very tiny room. This is not uncommon, in fact, I believe most people are not capable of seeing beyond their own specific belief system. Looks that way to me. I'm not a bit surprised though, for its impossible for closeminded people to allow some fresh air to come in. The least we could do is hope that someday somehow these people would come to their senses and learn to accept life the way it is. This is not uncommon, in fact, I believe most people are not capable of seeing beyond their own specific belief system. Yes, although we cant blame them entirely for this since religion has them under its grip. Much more, these people are manipulated with fear, fear of the unknown, of hell and the afterlife. That if they neglect to do this thing or that, theyd fry in hell forever. And to think that these people should promulgate love to the world. But where fear is, there love is not. Because true love does not seek to control others by means of fear or threat or anything close to it. You cannot make a person love you by these means. Because love isnt something that builds up in an instant but a feeling that grows little at a time. And neither can one command love, because love commanded is not love at all. I see that you're quite an enthusiast when it comes to life and so I would count it a pleasure to chat with you once---if that would be ok with you. Best Wishes, Rai

Good point about the threat of afterlife. I hadn't really considered it in that light. It makes perfect sense though, since the people that wrote the bible (my personal speculation) were writing a text to help guide the common folk into propper behavior. Wether or not the people who wrote the religious texts actually believed in them is moot because the writings were all to affective. After all, after almost two thousand years the common folk still fear hell. Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved - Machiavelli

Oh, and I'm all for a good chat Rai :p Healthy expression of ideals is always a good thing.

Hey you there Marc ... mmmmmph! I really need a good stretch here ... And btw, sorry for not responding to your post as ive been busy these past few days. But hey thanks for your reply really did appreciate it heres my ID stormblazer8 feel free to drop me a line anytime and will try to answer soon as i could ... best wishes! :D

Hello Rai, City, Warm greetings. hope all is well with you. God is true and just. He is truth and justice. He gave His commandments in Old and New -*test*-('")ament. He has settled Himself through this, through Christ, until His judgement.. ako

ps. like to share some verses.. "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. Peter 2:20 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 1 John 2:14 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 1 John 4:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith 1 John 5:4 I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all. Ecclesiastes 9:11 < Riches Are Meaningless > If you see the poor oppressed in a district, and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at such things; for one official is eyed by a higher one, and over them both are others higher still. Ecclesiastes 5:8 Extortion turns a wise man into a fool, and a bribe corrupts the heart. Ecclesiastes 7:7 May God bless you. ako

For you beloved ...
Hello dear, It's great to hear from you again ... and ... Thanks for the passages you gave ... i guess every other religion has their own share of inspirational themes too, much as you do. each one excelling the other in prose and poetry Let me share to you a few lines from other "inspirational" sources: My heart today smiles at its past night of tears like a wet tree glistening in the sun after the rain is over. ---Rabindranath Tagore Collected Poems and Plays Give rise to a heart that does not settle down anywhere. ---Diamond Sutra And when the earth shall claim your limbs, then shall you truly dance. ---Kahlil Gibran The Prophet Better than a thousand useless words is one single word that gives peace. ---The Dhammapada Help Nature and work well with her; and Nature will regard thee as one of her creators and make obeisance. And she will open wide before thee the portals of her secret chambers, lay before thy gaze the treasures only to the eye of the Spirit---the eye which never closes, the eye for which there is no veil in all her kingdoms. Then she will show thee the means and way, the first gate and the second, the third, up to the very seventh. And then, the goal---beyond which lie, bathed in the sunlight of the Spirit, glories untold, unseen by any save the eye of the Soul. ---The Voice of Silence by Helena P Blavatsky site: http://www.theosophical.ca/VoiceSilence.htm Before the eyes can see, they must be incapable of tears. Before the ear can hear, it must have lost its sensitiveness. Before the voice can speak in the presence of the Masters it must have lost the power to wound. Before the soul can stand in the presence of the Masters its feet must be washed in the blood of the heart. ---Light on the Path by Mabel Collins site: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/lightpat/lightpa1.htm That is its work upon the things you see, The unseen things are more; men's hearts and minds, The thoughts of people and their wys and wills, These, too, the great Law binds. Unseen it helpeth ye with faithful hands Unheard it speaketh stronger than the storm; Pity and Love are man's because long stress Moulded blind mass to form. It seeth everywhere and marketh all: Do right---it recompenseth! do one wrong--- The eual retribution must be made Though Dharma tarry long. By this the slayer's knife did stab himself, The unjust judge hath lost his own defender; The false tongue dooms it lie; the creeping thief And spoiler rob, to render. Such is the Law which moves to righteousness. Which none at last can turn aside or stay; The heart of it is Love, the end of it Is Peace and Consummation sweet. Obey! The Workings of the DIVINE LAW (as taught by the Budhha) ---SIR EDWIN ARNOLD The Light of Asia so with those words my love ... keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a singing bird will come. ---Chinese Proverb ______________________________________ Post Script: You wrote: God is true and just. He is truth and justice. He gave His commandments in Old and New -*test*-('")ament. He has settled Himself through this, through Christ, until His judgement.. So is Allah, supreme god of the Muslims: Praise be to Allah Lord of the Creation, The Compassionate, the Merciful, king of Judgment-day. Koran 1:1 The Rabbis of the Midrash says that: God is like a mirror. The mirror never changes but everyone who looks at it sees a different face. If this is true then nothing could put it more beautifully than the Upanishads' understanding of "god:" In any way that men love me in that same way they find my love: for many are the paths of men, but they all in the end come to me. ---The Upanishads God is peace, His name is peace, and all is bound together in peace. ---Zohar ... If therefore, an OMNIpotent, ALL loving and OMNIbenevolent god who shows NO PARTIALITY exists, don't you think it's only fair and reasonable for one to believe that he's also the same god who bestows the same love and affection, spreading his truths to every other creature who are members of different denominations (being the masterpiece of his OWN hands) ... although they're not Jews and Christians? Do you believe God has deprived them the truth about life only because they weren't jews and christians? correspondingly ... What if Allah was the true God? Would he deprive other people of his truth and love only because they're not Muslims? Do you heartily believe that the passages I've quoted above were "inspired by the devil" only because they weren't taken from the Judeo-Christian Bible? What would other religions think of that? What if they make the SAME comment? How would you feel? I think I don't have to say any further for deep inside I know you understand ... Love fashioned the hearts of all men Listen close to your heart ... Rai

Re: For you beloved ...
......oh, what can i say was so moved...... stay as you are, ako Hello dear, It's great to hear from you again ... and ... Thanks for the passages you gave ... i guess every other religion has their own share of inspirational themes too, much as you do. each one excelling the other in prose and poetry Let me share to you a few lines from other "inspirational" sources: My heart today smiles at its past night of tears like a wet tree glistening in the sun after the rain is over. ---Rabindranath Tagore Collected Poems and Plays Give rise to a heart that does not settle down anywhere. ---Diamond Sutra And when the earth shall claim your limbs, then shall you truly dance. ---Kahlil Gibran The Prophet Better than a thousand useless words is one single word that gives peace. ---The Dhammapada Help Nature and work well with her; and Nature will regard thee as one of her creators and make obeisance. And she will open wide before thee the portals of her secret chambers, lay before thy gaze the treasures only to the eye of the Spirit---the eye which never closes, the eye for which there is no veil in all her kingdoms. Then she will show thee the means and way, the first gate and the second, the third, up to the very seventh. And then, the goal---beyond which lie, bathed in the sunlight of the Spirit, glories untold, unseen by any save the eye of the Soul. ---The Voice of Silence by Helena P Blavatsky site: http://www.theosophical.ca/VoiceSilence.htm Before the eyes can see, they must be incapable of tears. Before the ear can hear, it must have lost its sensitiveness. Before the voice can speak in the presence of the Masters it must have lost the power to wound. Before the soul can stand in the presence of the Masters its feet must be washed in the blood of the heart. ---Light on the Path by Mabel Collins site: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/lightpat/lightpa1.htm That is its work upon the things you see, The unseen things are more; men's hearts and minds, The thoughts of people and their wys and wills, These, too, the great Law binds. Unseen it helpeth ye with faithful hands Unheard it speaketh stronger than the storm; Pity and Love are man's because long stress Moulded blind mass to form. It seeth everywhere and marketh all: Do right---it recompenseth! do one wrong--- The eual retribution must be made Though Dharma tarry long. By this the slayer's knife did stab himself, The unjust judge hath lost his own defender; The false tongue dooms it lie; the creeping thief And spoiler rob, to render. Such is the Law which moves to righteousness. Which none at last can turn aside or stay; The heart of it is Love, the end of it Is Peace and Consummation sweet. Obey! The Workings of the DIVINE LAW (as taught by the Budhha) ---SIR EDWIN ARNOLD The Light of Asia so with those words my love ... keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a singing bird will come. ---Chinese Proverb ______________________________________ Post Script: You wrote: God is true and just. He is truth and justice. He gave His commandments in Old and New -*test*-('")ament. He has settled Himself through this, through Christ, until His judgement.. So is Allah, supreme god of the Muslims: Praise be to Allah Lord of the Creation, The Compassionate, the Merciful, king of Judgment-day. Koran 1:1 The Rabbis of the Midrash says that: God is like a mirror. The mirror never changes but everyone who looks at it sees a different face. If this is true then nothing could put it more beautifully than the Upanishads' understanding of "god:" In any way that men love me in that same way they find my love: for many are the paths of men, but they all in the end come to me. ---The Upanishads God is peace, His name is peace, and all is bound together in peace. ---Zohar ... If therefore, an OMNIpotent, ALL loving and OMNIbenevolent god who shows NO PARTIALITY exists, don't you think it's only fair and reasonable for one to believe that he's also the same god who bestows the same love and affection, spreading his truths to every other creature who are members of different denominations (being the masterpiece of his OWN hands) ... although they're not Jews and Christians? Do you believe God has deprived them the truth about life only because they weren't jews and christians? correspondingly ... What if Allah was the true God? Would he deprive other people of his truth and love only because they're not Muslims? Do you heartily believe that the passages I've quoted above were "inspired by the devil" only because they weren't taken from the Judeo-Christian Bible? What would other religions think of that? What if they make the SAME comment? How would you feel? I think I don't have to say any further for deep inside I know you understand ... Love fashioned the hearts of all men Listen close to your heart ... Rai

......oh, what can i say was so moved...... stay as you are, ako So I think that settles our discussion, honey. Best Wishes 2u and ur loved ones dear ... Stay Sweet Rai