Change of tone?
uy nag mellow si superboy..iba na tono....na-kryptonite....hehehe...joke bro. we only believe what science has to offer..empirical..measureable...whatever science hasn't discovered or proven, we stand by it. if your offering something other than what is scientific...sorry bro..it's a waste of time. life simply exists. Why do you have to ask why? Is this really necessary? the right question is how life originated and where...these are valid questions...and worth pondering.....our origins haven't been established but there are solid theories. And these are scientific thoeries accepted by the scientific community. If you ask why we exists and we have a purpose, that's where you get yourself in trouble...you think all sorts of weird things and you become a weirdo...you see things such as ghosts, orbs, ectoplasm, etc...then before you know it..you experience nightmares!...you resort to supernaturals which really doesn't exist. create a purpose beneficial to mankind....and you will stamp yourself in the walls of infiteness! peace bro! city

O tapos....?

I am almost tempted to apologize to others who are viewing this forum and realize that there are now three pages of almost nothing..but let me try again.. everything is infinite. there is no smallest and there is no biggest. there is always "something" smaller and bigger. remember when somebody discovered the atom, imagine everyone's surprise when the electron, neutron, proton was discovered, then the quark, lepton, etc..if you are going to visually magnify "the" smallest it will always be made up of something smaller (mind-boggling eh?)..in the same way the milky way galaxy is not the biggest place in the universe. there will be something bigger than our universe..perhaps the universe is just an "atom" of another system, and so on.. it is the "reality" of our existence. In this line of thinking - wait i just switched on madonna in my media player - we can say that there are no absolutes. and since there is no smallest or biggest, a border cannot exist. there is actually no black or white, left or right, etc. so maybe you're right there is no straight line because it is only a concept, an axiom. but then again even if it is only an axiom, it is a wrong axiom. just like 1 equals 1, in my world of no absolutes. but before you say my world is wrong you must believe that there are absolutes. which makes this discussion empty. anyway, even axiomatically, there is no straight line because if you think about it a line will only approach the 0 degrees angle indefinitely. it is not even straight. there will be an infinitisimal curvature because an absolute zero path is impossible. think of small increments in that straight line. one incremental step is composed of infinitissimally small increment, one electron at a time, so to speak, if the angle of inclination is constant fo that small increments, the line will produce a curvature. if this keeps on going, the closest you got is a circle because that line being a curve in "reality" ( I love quotation marks) will return unto itself.. but here is the interesting part..there is actually no single straight line, axiomatically. imagine this..if there is a powerful beam of light that can travel the universe indefinitely, that light will return unto itself not in one direction but in all direction..(imagine a fountain the disperses at the top but think symmetrical).. assuming of course that the universe is that big. i am not familiar with methods used in philosophy in "proving" things having studied engineering not philosophy but i do not think it is necessary in this discussion. i am not proving anything earth shaking. an open mind, a lot of common sense, a little exposure in calculus would help, but that is all there is to it. and besides i am not sure these so called philosophers have really said anything which is still "true" today. karl marx, hegel, engel, plato, aristotle, socrates, what these people have done is usher in a revolutionary idea, nothing else. but nothing they said could be cast in stone that "everyone" could believe in. the more useful bunch are the einsteins and newton's. but then again, from the standpoint of infinity, are they really? If what i have said so far is incorrect feel free to correct me in a language even keana reeves would understand. i have not said anything about dreams yet so maybe we are just getting started. again.. sorry, madonna's over. and i have to check my mails..see you all..

how does it translate to life? human life? the answer of course is it depends. have you watched matrix 1? think of yourself as NEO and I am MORPHEUS offering you two pills. one will lead you to the truth and the other the status quo. although this is a simplified analogy, the effect is the same - albeit without the cinematic effects and high drama. the truth pill will give you the bitter and cold picture of what life is all about. the status quo pill will bring you back to where you were (in the "box", as my friend would fondly volunteer) but infinity is not only about life? it is not even about life per se? for what is life? or what is belief? for somebody who believes in infinity, nothing has any real definition. here is a fun example famous among philosophy junkies: you are carrying a ball, but are you really carrying the ball? is the ball really touching you?because if you examine the space between you and the ball, you will find that there is no clearcut border that says this is where the ball and you meet. all the more that an absolute definition does not exist because definitions are made up of words, man-made words. for example, what is a male, it is a gender of human characterized by a penis. define penis, penis is a human tissue...etc. define tissue, tissue is...and so on..A definition is made up of words that in turn can be defined by words and so on until you go back to where you started without having achieved anything... human life - as we know it today - is simply a small segment in an infinite spectrum..it is like in a series of numbers (infinity....1, .2, 0, 1, 2, 3...infinity), we are just between the numbers 1 and 2. consequently at present we can only observe up to the numbers 1 and 2 because it is the limit of our technology or human experience..we cannot see .001 or 10 because it is still far away. in the future we might ("might" because no one can be sure man will still be here one million years from now), but then again what about 1000 or 2000? And so on. "infinity" interpolates both directions of material nature (smallness and bigness). but in doing so it is "helping" explain the nature of things, or at least how we should view things. 1000 or 2000 is still beyond our grasp (or even imagination) but infinity can already approximate what to expect. and to answer the question of what to expect? everything and nothing. if this is too abstract for you, try understanding infinity first and perhaps give me some hint that you do.. see you!! BTW: try viewing BBC's "SPACE" anchored by Sam Neil. perhaps it will change the way you think about our small "insignificant" lives on earth..christian friends would be the prime beneficiaries..

I am almost tempted to apologize to others who are viewing this forum and realize that there are now three pages of almost nothing..but let me try again.. There's really NOTHING to be extracted from YOU, unless you will be logical in addressing simple challenge to your opinions here. So, I advice you to leave for a while your mumbo-jumbo nonsense and be logical. everything is infinite. there is no smallest and there is no biggest. there is always "something" smaller and bigger. remember when somebody discovered the atom, imagine everyone's surprise when the electron, neutron, proton was discovered, then the quark, lepton, etc..if you are going to visually magnify "the" smallest it will always be made up of something smaller (mind-boggling eh?)..in the same way the milky way galaxy is not the biggest place in the universe. there will be something bigger than our universe..perhaps the universe is just an "atom" of another system, and so on.. it is the "reality" of our existence. Here's again the mind-boggling nonsense. You simply have to explain the meaning of infinity. Example, Let us use, X for everything and, Y for infinite so that, X is Y. Now, analyze that proposition. What does it say? Does it give us any clue that qualifies the meaing of X from Y? Take note that X and Y are two vey different terms. Thus, to explain what makes X as Y is missing in your over-all argument about Y(infinity). My conslusion is...you are tautologus. Which means..no definite explanation about infinity has been spoken by you. so maybe you're right there is no straight line because it is only a concept, an axiom. but then again even if it is only an axiom, it is a wrong axiom. just like 1 equals 1, in my world of no absolutes. Here is again a disrespectful demonstration about our knowledge of logic i.e. mathematical concepts like "straight line". He can not admit that he has a sure misunderstanding about the EXISTENCE of "line". He assumes that a line is an object existing in the material world. AGain, I want to educate you that "line" is not an object like a stone where you can carry with your hands. In short, a line is a concept existing in the realm of the mind. About axioms, definitely, you have the most absurd understanding about it. Axioms are the most fundamental propositions that represent our thoughts. Now, if your ideas today were not built on axioms, you must be talking something senseless. Otheriwse, you have to prove yet if your propositions are axiomatic. If not...they are metaphorical thoughts but deep within is full of irrationalities. magine this..if there is a powerful beam of light that can travel the universe indefinitely, that light will return unto itself not in one direction but in all direction..(imagine a fountain the disperses at the top but think symmetrical).. assuming of course that the universe is that big. i am not familiar with methods used in philosophy in "proving" things having studied engineering not philosophy but i do not think it is necessary in this discussion. i am not proving anything earth shaking. an open mind, a lot of common sense, a little exposure in calculus would help, but that is all there is to it. and besides i am not sure these so called philosophers have really said anything which is still "true" today. karl marx, hegel, engel, plato, aristotle, socrates, what these people have done is usher in a revolutionary idea, nothing else. but nothing they said could be cast in stone that "everyone" could believe in. the more useful bunch are the einsteins and newton's. but then again, from the standpoint of infinity, are they really? If what i have said so far is incorrect feel free to correct me in a language even keana reeves would understand. i have not said anything about dreams yet so maybe we are just getting started. again.. Honestly, many of your thoughts are erroneous. Seems ironic that you refuse to prove something, and yet you are in the mood of saying something. To say something here, you should be prepared to prove the logic of it.

Tautologous \Tau*tol"o*gous\, a. Repeating the same thing in different words; tautological. --Tooke. whew! I had to look it up..(but you missed one letter there) (Of course i have to repeat a lot of things just to make the point. and if you are one those people who don't understand this, perhaps this is not for you. so maybe you just have to give it up. this is not for everybody. don't you ever wonder why theists could not understand atheism and vice versa - contrary to what atheists say?) if there is anybody who is tautologous, it is that person who 10 posts ago keep asking me to prove things: as i said i am not proving anything. take it. if you don't want it throw it out of the window. but i am in the mood for a little indulgence: "Honestly, many of your thoughts are erroneous. " what part of those i said escapes you? let me review: 1) infinite means there is no starting or ending point. 2) everything means all things and non-things even human thoughts 3) everything is infinite means everything, all things, even those that has not yet been discovered, is infinite. and let me tell you about x and y: IT'S IRRELEVANT. you're problem is you're looking at the wrong window, your window. try looking in mine. you have not even echoed anything i said which means either of two things, you're waiting for the right ballgame before you pounce or you're not interested in finding the meaning of infinity..ballgame: perhaps you want to bring this discussion into something elementary as x + y = z. an area you feel comfortable in playing. badnews, even those equations are beneath those who understand infinity. either you understand it or don't. and believe it or not if you want to understand it it would not have taken you one month to understand this. let me ask you some questions: 1) what do you believe in life? 2) do you believe in a god? 3) does you life have a purpose? Or does human life have purpose. these are just a number of question infinity is helping answer. because these are simply some of the questions in a world of infinite questions. once i believed that what you believed in is a question of faith. now i realized that what you believed in is a question of how your brain is wired. if you're brain is not equipped to understand calculus there is no way you will understand it, consequently believe it. an atheist has a preconceived notion of his existence but if he cannot fully understand the whys of his existence then he is merely an atheist in the religious sense. he will feel superior - and afraid because he is surrounded by bigots - but his understanding is limited to explaining the non-existence of god. this explains why he cannot understand the real reason why theists behave the way they do. i'll leave you with one thing: if you believe that there is anything , anything at all, as infinite, i'll be happy. because someday somebody might explain infinity to you in a way far superior that what i am doing here and you will understand..

Whoa ... long quotes back there ... I just want to highlight and EXPOUND one thing that caught my attention. this explains why he cannot understand the real reason why theists behave the way they do. and what should we try to understand? the HOLY wars committed in the name of a god or sumthin like it? :oops: in plain language, theists behave the way the do because they have their god to back em up everytime they dash people's heads off, is that whut you mean, or should that one be an exception? the fact of the matter is ... ppol's blind faith in some pie in the sky is what drives them to do either good OR evil, motivated primarily by: hypocrisy (the "holier than thou" attitude) another is because of an insatiable desire for getting filthy rich (the easy way) like Morris Cerullo http://www.christian-witness.org/archives/cetf2002/cerullo02.html and many more like him (sorry for name taggin) and thirdly: because of a prejudiced attitude towards others who don't belong to the same faith ---nothing else. Eversince the beginning this has been the case Why not take a peek on this thread an' see for yourself? http://www.vanallens.com/exchristian/nameofthelord.html Do you sincerely believe with all your heart that ppol could do WHATEVER THEY WANT as long as they do EVERYTHING "IN THE LORD'S NAME??? In Allah's Name, whatever? Forgive me, kryptonian but i feel the need to ask Ciao PS. I'm thankful we're not under the OT times, for (if the myth is true) i guess we (as well as our CHILDREN) wouldn't have a chance in hell 2 escape the wrath or your sword ... becos you have every REASON 2 do it just becos your god sez so there are some remnants left though, http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/cults/victims_of_religion.htm and we do hope you're not one of em. :D _________________ If you're an agnostic, a freethinker or an atheist, please ignore my post. On the other hand, if you're a deist please try to see things in a different light. (Or should I say, in the light of sanity and reason) Thanks If you wanna be good, be good for something, not just for one thing.